Usually when I talk about seduction, I start off by saying, “I believe I can seduce anyone. But I can tell you in reality that is far from the case (and then explain the mindset of the seductive character vs. those who are not)”.
Unfortunately, at last Sunday’s Let’s Talk About Sex: Getting Some panel discussion where we were fortunate to have Vancouver sex experts Jennifer Skrukwa of Libido Events, Dr. Pega Ren of Smart Sex Talk and Ryann Rain of Stiletto Storm (I, Ronald Lee moderated), I only able to get out the “I believe I can seduce anyone” before I was interrupted by the panelists in a move that pretty much set the tone for the entire event.
The idea for the topic came about from the observation that when sex coaches get together, it’s usually to discuss the topic of sex. Having better sex, a special new technique or toy, etc. There hasn’t been a discussion about actually how to initiate sex, the “Getting Some” and seduction part of the dating relationship that I had heard of. Thus, understanding that this is a top of mind question for many men, I threw the event together very quickly.
What surprised me was that prior to the event we had more women than men RSVP and at one point I was concerned that there might have been too many women attending. But on the on the day, the audience was comprised of 90% men, who all came keen to learn and with hungry ears.
The event started a whole 20 minutes late (note to self, and to all of you, no more late starts!) went for over an hour and a half and more than half the men stayed after the event for a discussion that proved to be as interesting and enlightening as the panel discussion itself.
In this review, I’ll share the audience feedback and follow with my own feedback.
Audience Feedback
First, let’s start with the good. I have complete respect for what the panelists do, and the men did get some good tips from them here and there.
But for the majority of the men, they felt a disconnect between them and the panelists to their (the audience’s) right. Their main complaint was the women did not understand what’s going on for a man who doesn’t know how become intimate with women.
In fact, several of the men felt the right side was “intolerant” while others didn’t feel listened to, rather it seemed like the women were pushing an agenda, lecturing about how they wanted to be treated, rather than address the topic at hand. Several others felt that the panelists were only slightly a little too feministic for the topic and the room.
The men unanimously disapproved about how the discussion went off topic and into too much debate about the pick up artist community and it quickly became apparent to them that these women didn’t really know about the pick up artist community and had not read “The Game” (Neil Strauss, 2005).
One audience member wrote in his feedback form “didn’t like the debating of pickup community where panelists are not knowledgeable of the topic”.
Was it a case of a very polar and biased group of men? Certainly not, I’ve been in rooms where there were blatantly hurt men and women haters and these men were not those. We actively screen men like that out of our circle (and there are groups of men like that in Vancouver, believe me) and our guys tend to be wholesome guys, genuinely together. It’s fair they would expect to come to an event and actually get what the event promised.
Overall, the men were generally displeased with the event, with a minority of men who did get something out of it.
My (Ronald’s) Feedback
As moderator of the event, I was in the precarious position of seeing the look of confusion, hope, and disappointment on the men’s faces as the questions they asked went unanswered.
I tried to setup the event by asking the panel why, despite that our sexual attitudes have changed so much over recent years and society has become freer and more relaxed about the topic, is it that North American men have so much trouble dating and initiating sex.
Before I could finish the question, one of the sex coaches started a debate about sex in media.
Alright.
Questions from the audience about what men could do better to make the right moves also went unanswered, thus I tried to participate in the panel to attempt to give the men the insight they were looking for.
“Tried” being the key word as, however, much like the opening statement at the top of this review, I was never allowed to fully form a complete thought as I was interrupted and heckled…by the panelists on the right (the lone panelist on the left did listen first to what everyone said first before contributing).
Now over the last two years I’ve put on at least 45 professional events, both through my dating companies and through the business networking group I run, with at least a third of these, panel discussions. It’s usually the case where panelists were well mannered and respectful of each other and would allow each other the time to speak even if they didn’t agree and seldom do panelists let their emotions get the better of them.
That was not the case Sunday as the panelists on the right would debate with the other panelists and the audience members. Its ironic that one of the panelists told me after the event that she thought another panelist was overbearing when the audience thought the same of her.
About halfway through the panel it also became apparent to me also that the right side of the panel had never seen, and didn’t know, about the epitome of the Art of Seduction, particularly from a male perspective. Now, let’s get one thing clear, the women on the panel never claimed to be seduction experts, they are fine sex coaches and I wholeheartedly do and will continue to send people to them for sexual technique seminars. But, much like how they treated the men’s seduction community, they were really opinionated about seduction without knowing all the points.
I suspect that their image of the male seducer is the greasy lounge lizard from 70′s and 80′s movies who hits on every women (poorly) with slick lines and manipulative moves, however I cannot confirm that. It certainly sounded like the case where they were disapproving of the very notion of a male seducer and were visualizing male stereotypes that were neither accurate nor current (I’m not saying there aren’t men like that out there, I’m saying that we are also not those and it was not what I, or anyone, save one person, in the audience was describing).
I also found it hypocritical that I was being heckled and interrupted by the most academically trained panelist when I tried to explain that there is a seduction process, a series of loose steps and events that happen during a seduction. “Come on,” she’d mutter as she shock her head disapprovingly. I find this surprising because earlier in the year she gave a presentation at the Dateology Dating and Relationship Symposium citing a scientific paper about the very same thing (up to this point, the only advice the panelists had for the men was just to be honest about what they wanted with women when negotiating to get it – something the men did not understand and wanted to hear the steps of how to do that).
By the end of the discussion, most of the audience’s general and how to questions had been blatantly ignored, although a few men were able to get some discussion going about their own individual situations.
Personally, I felt taken out of context as I wasn’t allowed to complete a thought by the panelists on the right. I find that particularly ironic as they would very likely agree with what I had to say if they bothered to listen.
My experience at the front of the room echos the experience of the men in the audience I’m sorry to say and this was by far not the best panel discussion I’ve put on. I apologize to all the men who expressed their displeasure with the event. This was the first panel discussion we’ve had that went sideways and we’ll make it up to you in the future.
I certainly would be willing to bring them back for talks again, but will be more careful about the topic next time and make sure they speak on something that is their specialty, now that I am clearer on what they know.
If you were there, I, and I’m sure the other panelists and audience, would like to hear what you thought of the event. Please be sure to take a few seconds and add your comment below.
Best,
Ronald Lee
www.manmeetswoman.com
778-999-5094 coach@manmeetswoman.com
…follow me on twitter! http://twitter.com/RonaldMMW
{ 1 comment… read it below or add one }
In my opinion, I thought the talk was quite good. Yes there were offbeat moments and characters to put it lightly, but overall I think it provided an interesting introduction to the world of sex from different perspectives. Although it was my first panel discussion, I must say it was rather informative and loosely structured – sometimes too much to say the least.
Overall, would definitely attend another panel discussion again!